Pain Revisited

Devout readers will remember my recent series on the problem of pain (parts I, II, III & IV), which is essentially the question of how gratuitous suffering can exist in a world governed by a powerful and loving God. In discussing this problem with Christians I've often been reminded that God cannot be judged by human standards. The Christian concept of God is a being so great in knowledge, power and love that his actions and motives cannot possibly be understood my mere mortals. Inevitably, any attempt to judge such a being by human criteria will be insufficient and inaccurate. "God has a reason we can't understand" is the answer to any unanswerable question, and no divine act is to (seemingly) monstrous to be excused by our ignorance. This is certainly a powerful defense, but what is it's price? Sam Harris (truthdig.com) makes the following observation (thanks to the Questioning Christian):

If God exists, either he can do nothing to stop the most egregious calamities or he does not care to. God, therefore, is either impotent or evil. Pious readers will now execute the following pirouette: God cannot be judged by merely human standards of morality. But, of course, human standards of morality are precisely what the faithful use to establish God's goodness in the first place.

I think he makes a good point. It doesn't seem possible to prove that a good God does not exist based on human experience, knowledge, and logic, but if theists wish to dismiss the argument on these grounds, they cannot then turn and offer their own empirical proofs in support of a good God.

But it seems that we do this all the time. Every week in my church people stand up and proclaim the goodness of God as it is evident in their personal life. No one qualifies these testimonials with the reminder that we don't understand God and it's quite possible that the things he does that seem good to us are actually evil. Nor should they.

I believe these experiences - apparent answers to prayer, encouraging thoughts, etc. - are good and valid, and I'm glad for the encouragement they seem to bring. But it's one thing to let your perspective and your experiences to encourage you; it's quite another to use them to persuade others of the validity of your beliefs. Debate and evangelism have their own set of rules.

We have a choice: either we can debate the existence of God using empirical evidence (recognizing that we cannot be certain about our conclusions) or we dismiss all such evidence. We cannot present our experiences as substantiation of God's goodness and not give credence to counterexamples.

7 comments:

David Hengen said...

i don't agree with the quote used by that guy in your post: "If God exists, either he can do nothing to stop the most egregious calamities or he does not care to."
those aren't the only two options. what about God not being able to do anything because of His personality as it were? God is a just God and if we've sinned we have to live with that, however that works. i don't know, but i don't think its a case of God not caring to intervene. i'm not even entirely sure that that's what your post was really about. that quote just bothered me.

Jacob said...

Yes, I don't agree with everything he said. The question of whether God could have good reason to allow horrible suffering is hotly debated. The reason I found this quote interesting is that he points out that many people simply dismiss the accusation by saying that we can't judge God by our standards, but of course, any time we praise God for his goodness we are judging him by human standards of morality.

Harris, I think, would say that God as you describe him is impotent, or at the least, not omnipotent.

Hacksaw Duck said...
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Hacksaw Duck said...

I like your critique of "I can't assess God's ways by my own moral standards." That whole popular assertion breaks down when we really look at it. In effect, we're saying that love looks like love until it's raised to the level of divine perfection, in which case it doesn't always look like love.

If God's character is completely unintelligible by our standards, how can I ever trust Him? Maybe after forgiving me, He'll decide to condemn my anyway because, hey, we can't understand the ways of God. Maybe it's actually good if God forgives and then condemns me (even though it seems otherwise to me).

Also, if we're created in the image of God, can't we know something about the divine character by looking within? Love and compassion, which I experience in my own life, come from God. Will anyone argue that I can't know anything about ultimate love and mercy by looking at my own experience of these things?

On a side note, this is a beef I have with the church stand on the Trinity, a doctrine that I consider unnecessary and illogical. The reasoning is the same as in theodicy: God is one and three simultaneously, but we simply can't fathom this because we can't fathom God. OK, then maybe God also will love us and condemn us. Maybe He will give us life and take it away all at once. Maybe He loves us and hates us at the same time. Why not? If we make Him utterly unintelligible, anything is possible.

Jacob said...

I don't think the idea that we can't judge God by our standards is a bad one. I frequently do things for the benefit of my cat that seem cruel to him; likewise I'm sure an omniscient and benevolent God would do things that would seem cruel to us but would in the big picture be for our good.

The only thing I object to is dismissing the problem of pain with this arguement and then turning around and saying "See, we know God loves us because he does good things for us". We can't have it both ways.

I don't know if anyone would argue "that I can't know anything about ultimate love and mercy by looking at my own experience of these things". It makes sense to me that if there is some ultimate source of love, that it would be reflected and exemplified in our own ability to love. But I'm sure that some will object.

I like your point about the dangers of making God unintelligible. Of course, there's also the opposite danger of thinking we have him all figured out. On one level I like the idea of God being this weird and mysterious being that doesn't play by the laws of nature, but I think we miss the point in trying to construct some dogma about precisely how he's weird and mysterious. Honestly, I'd be a bit suprised if God's nature wasn't in some way beyond my comprehension, but it seems to me that those who want to canonize their concept of the trinity see God's incomprehensibility as a problem to be fixed.

s.l.d. greenaway said...

I am curious Jacob, have you found what you are looking for? I hope you have, but by the looks of it, you are still searching. I encourage you to keep searching, but don't search biasly or aimlessly. Mind you, this comment means nothing to you....just another person making an opinion just like you. Later days

Jacob said...

I haven't found what I was looking for two years ago. At that time what I wanted was certainty and tangible intimacy with God. And though I'd certainly still like to have both those things, I'm no longer actively seeking them, nor do I believe I could find them in this life. I don't think I'm the sort of person who finds these things. (Of course I may be wrong.)

But in a sense I'm always searching, it's just that now I search for different things. I do try to search strategically and without bias.

And I always appreciate comments.