tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7028661.post3410978488212348526..comments2023-08-05T09:53:24.002-06:00Comments on twenty feet: The Cost of DiscipleshipJacobhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06106718028421755149noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7028661.post-13541947749530170882007-08-15T14:22:00.000-06:002007-08-15T14:22:00.000-06:00Good point Bruce.Good point Bruce.Jacobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06106718028421755149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7028661.post-65288979003160832892007-08-14T22:13:00.000-06:002007-08-14T22:13:00.000-06:00Wow... they must have had some wierd prophecy inte...<I> Wow... they must have had some wierd prophecy interpretation rules in those days.</I><BR/><BR/>What I think Matthew was trying to show with all his references to prophecy was that Jesus' life paralleled the entire Old Testament. The same idea is developed a bit further in Hebrews 8-9: The Jerusalem temple is a "sketch and shadow" (Heb 8:5) of the heavenly one from which Jesus reigns.<BR/><BR/>If "prophecy" is understood as "parallel" or "foreshadowing," it makes sense to apply any verse to Jesus, regardless of its original context. I think that's what Matthew was doing.BruceAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16013588487417582411noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7028661.post-47678953295372182912007-08-14T00:06:00.000-06:002007-08-14T00:06:00.000-06:00Wow... they must have had some wierd prophecy inte...Wow... they must have had some wierd prophecy interpretation rules in those days. Can't imagine Matthew woulda purposely made himself look stupid, it's not like the deity of Christ is hinging on the Egypt prophecy.<BR/><BR/>In regards to your creationism comment, I agree completely. Had I gotten a job with a Christian school, I would have had to deal with this. I'm kind of glad I didn't get it.Filth- Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09449473866310583362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7028661.post-40225295033718460112007-08-13T20:17:00.000-06:002007-08-13T20:17:00.000-06:00FM: The "prophecy" is quoted in Matt 2:15 as "out ...FM: The "prophecy" is quoted in Matt 2:15 as "out of Egypt I have called my son." The original is in Hosea 11 and says (in context):<BR/><BR/>"When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son. But the more I called Israel, the further they went from me. They sacrificed to the Baals and they burned incense to images."<BR/><BR/>Interesting idea about the second coming thing. That's just the kind of thing He'd do.Jacobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06106718028421755149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7028661.post-67629481308434543202007-08-09T23:31:00.000-06:002007-08-09T23:31:00.000-06:00Pardon my ignorance, but what's the deal with the ...Pardon my ignorance, but what's the deal with the "Egypt" prophecy...<BR/><BR/>To brucea, I suppose one could argue that the Apostle John saw the 2nd coming (albeit in a vision).Filth- Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09449473866310583362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7028661.post-63013541891041256872007-08-07T02:36:00.000-06:002007-08-07T02:36:00.000-06:00Dr. D: Only if we presuppose that Jesus was God.An...Dr. D: Only if we presuppose that Jesus was God.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, I guess it would be more accurate to say I'm debating the fallibility of Jesus as understood by me, through the representations of him in the Bible. I'm not all that interested in the real Jesus that lived 2000 years ago. I can't know anything about him, and hence I cannot be his disciple. I have no interest in the infallibility of the real God - about whom I know nothing - only the infallibility of the Gods (that is, the concepts of God) to which I have access.<BR/><BR/>But that's a bit misleading... what I'm <I>really</I> talking about here is determining whether I agree with Jesus (the Jesus I know). As you rightly note, I am not infallible, thus if Jesus (tJIk) disagrees with me, it doesn't necessarily mean he's fallible. What it does mean, I think, is that I <I>believe</I> he's fallible. But I think I can believe he's fallible without believing that I'm necessarily right. If that makes sense.Jacobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06106718028421755149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7028661.post-15092758564754779992007-08-06T10:50:00.000-06:002007-08-06T10:50:00.000-06:00FM: It's a good point. It's a hell of a task to f...FM: It's a good point. It's a hell of a task to follow someone based on double-translated snippets of sermons preached in another time and culture. Even with the stuff we think we <I>do</I> understand, we're probably wrong a fair bit. Still, if we're going to follow, we have to <I>try</I> to understand.Jacobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06106718028421755149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7028661.post-2768413763183226852007-08-06T10:42:00.000-06:002007-08-06T10:42:00.000-06:00Bruce: Sure, it looks like he got it wrong. But i...Bruce: Sure, it <I>looks</I> like he got it wrong. But if you've ever taken a look at the prophecies that Jesus "fulfilled" the first time around, you might think that God takes some perverse pleasure in not doing what he seemed to have said he'd do. The disciples, of all people, should have known not to take prophecies at face value - they (at least a couple of them) are the ones who believed Jesus fulfilled "prophecies" like "Out of Egypt I have called my son".Jacobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06106718028421755149noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7028661.post-24973101532418221392007-08-05T04:45:00.000-06:002007-08-05T04:45:00.000-06:00This is reponse to "JR Camp Sucked" (Or whatever y...This is reponse to "JR Camp Sucked" (Or whatever you really titled it). <BR/><BR/>Of course it had some flaw that made it suck. You go into things thinking they'll suck Joel, so you can blog about it. Lol.<BR/><BR/>Whatever, dumb. Laters.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7028661.post-67366292689159230722007-08-03T23:43:00.000-06:002007-08-03T23:43:00.000-06:00Debating the fallibility of God in the person of J...Debating the fallibility of God in the person of Jesus Christ is to put our own intellect on a par with God's. All you and I have to go by are some selected statements made in a context that we for the most part have to reconstruct. Anyone's statements taken out of their context can appear erroneous. Infallibility is a human concept that we have attributed to God. We achieve that concept from the claims of God to perfect knowledge. I do not mean to discredit God's claim but admittedly judging His perspective from an imperfect one is hardly fair. Infalibility can be supported by God's inability to lie, to sin or do wrong. The holiness of God demands that the omnipotent One is unable to violate the very essence of His own character and character quality traits. <BR/><BR/>Any time that we think we see some discrepency in the character of God or the integrity of His statements it is a much better idea to calculate on the basis of our not fully understanding than to fault God. We have been promised that we will give account to Him for every thought word and action when all is said and done!<BR/><BR/>I am convinced that we have a view of God that is far too small. We have humanized God, thus in our minds lowered Him to our level or raised ourselves to be His equals.<BR/><BR/>Lucifer got thrown out of heaven for such thinking!<BR/><BR/>Dr. DEEAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7028661.post-32355959095741636932007-07-30T20:29:00.000-06:002007-07-30T20:29:00.000-06:00Personally, I remind myself that some of the reall...Personally, I remind myself that some of the really wierd stuff Jesus said, if it wasn't meant to screw with people's heads in the first place, has been summarized, stripped of context, and double-translated (Arameic-Greek-English). <BR/><BR/>Perhaps that's being intellectually dishonest? I dunno.Filth- Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09449473866310583362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7028661.post-1818554844952019282007-07-29T21:38:00.001-06:002007-07-29T21:38:00.001-06:00is is any less fallible?That should be, is he any ...<I>is is any less fallible?</I><BR/><BR/>That should be, is <B>he</B> any less fallible?BruceAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16013588487417582411noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7028661.post-79110809080491957122007-07-29T21:38:00.000-06:002007-07-29T21:38:00.000-06:00Interesting thoughts. I'm wondering about this que...Interesting thoughts. I'm wondering about this question:<BR/><BR/><I>Can I be a real disciple and think he got a few things wrong?</I><BR/><BR/>Personally, I think Jesus got this wrong: "Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom," (Matthew 16:28) assuming he is referring to his second coming. But maybe he wasn't. Elsewhere he says, "But about that day or hour no one knows, neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father," (Mark 13:32) which argues against his making predictions about the day or hour. But then, if he didn't know, is is any less fallible?BruceAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16013588487417582411noreply@blogger.com